› Forums › Let`s play – Winter 2022 › Students › Kate and Vicki. Vicki 4 years old American Cocker Spaniel
Tagged: shaping
- This topic has 13 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by
Polona Bonač.
-
AuthorPosts
-
December 10, 2022 at 9:06 pm #19202
Vicki is an many way a natural agility dog. She has obstacle focus, independence and high drive. She is an insecure dog, very sensitive and the modern life can be difficult for her (let her loose in the woods and she is totally different) Our issue is that when we start, competiton and classes, I kind of loose her. She stays at the startline (worked long and hard on that one and it is prob 20% of what it should be he he) and then of she goes. Thru all tunnels. Then she comes back and she is ready to start. She is better, but we can not manage the start. I think it is stress and has also become a pattern that she does. A bit of history: I got her 4 months old, she has not been sosialized or anything from the breeder (did not think about it to be honest, my first dog who then was 4 years old has never had any issues with environment) When I started training her and taken her different places she was insecure but not too bad but then I got a knee injury and I walked around on crutches for almost 6 months. I had to have other people walking them. Sure much I could have done, but I did not know what (because my oldest never had any issues I did not see the signs at start) and I was in a lot of pain. When I became mobile we got a dog decease in Norway that shut down all dog activities and then covid hit us. so all the training that we did was alone. She was not used to people, competiton etc. She has always had a love of tunnels and when things are difficult she runs. I did let her do her own thing for too long. I just thought she had fun and when I had difficulties to move around (knee issues comes back regularly but not as bad as when I had the injury) I think the main reason for it to get this bad is on one hand me that did not understand her (thought for a long time that she was a tough cookie when she really was a very soft, insecure and sensitive little dog) and that knee injury, dog decease and covid hit us. I have tried a lot but I do not seem to be able to crack the code. I stopped going to competition, no fun being disqualified before we got started. Have now started a few beginners competitions, we call them blueberry he he) Friday I held her and started her running because the course was made so that it was possible, and that did work, but I want to try to break the pattern that she has. In the long run,not a good strategy. She is shaking at start. She is over aroused and it is like setting of a rocket. I have many times wanted to give up, but then she is so good when she manages to listen. One other issue is her speed and my body. Not the best match. But I want to try absolutely everything before I give up agility. At rally obedience she is doing great. In a very short time she was qualified for level 3 and she had her debut today and won first prize with very high score. So I am hoping this class can help us.
December 11, 2022 at 12:30 am #19211Welcome! Yes, those hectic starts are probably how she lets out the nervousness that builds up on the start. I will definitely do my best to help you overcome this issue and connect you2 better. 🙂
December 12, 2022 at 1:32 pm #19227Did not really get this 🤣 We have trained IYC and it gives us some trouble here 🤣https://youtu.be/zJP97F9C9lY
December 12, 2022 at 9:39 pm #19240Not too bad considering she had different experiences from the past. She wasn’t really active, but her energy was good, she was for sure very interested in getting that treat. What will help her loosen up even more is more dynamic. Try food throws across the whole space and also hide and seek – running to hide in a different room or behind some trees/rocks if you are outside. The more you move, the more excited she will get so it will translate to more active pokes as well.
December 13, 2022 at 9:42 pm #19261Rhis went better. https://youtu.be/dqVnYM1_QlE
What i forlot to mentuon is that she sometimes hesitate to take food from hand or come ver close to me. I have no idea why. She is very sensitive and if I by accident touches her with my leg she wont go near my legg. Been struggeling bigtime with weaving thrue my legs, rally obedience. She aldo rally hates putting harnes on. Difficult to describe. Can film it if that can help
December 14, 2022 at 12:03 pm #19266That was very nice! I would now try to make a combination of both (all three games). Food throws should be about 80% of it all, but when you see a good opportunity (for example when you have previously sent her into a different room and you have time because it takes her a while to come back), go down on the floor and wait for her to “poke” you into action again. Meaning you are quiet and still (or potentially move the hand slowly to remind her it is not a self control game and that she can poke it) and as soon as she pokes you, get up and start another very active round of food throws. If you manage to really hide from her sometimes, that is even better. 🙂
“What i forlot to mentuon is that she sometimes hesitate to take food from hand or come ver close to me. ”
Yes, some dogs are really sensitive when it comes to intruding someones personal space or their personal space being invaded. It is important that you never do anything to “push” her into an activity you know is hard for her. Always give her a choice to decide that on her own. I have a feeling that she will be less “reserved” if she is in the middle of action (that is why I think food throws are great) but we will see. The more she is encouraged to come and poke you, the easier it will get for her at least in normal situations. Once we build up solid foundations this way, we can gradually start to teach her to tolerate her “no-no”‘s better. 🙂December 14, 2022 at 9:06 pm #19275Tried a session outside, felt better than it looked 🤣. To feet up is something i normally cue (use it if kids comes running our way, she is very scared of them and will often bark if I try just to walk by them. Dhe is gjetting better but we in many dituations ude 2 feet up on different objects, and ne. I think that is one if the reasons it is hard for her to jump ip on me without a cue)
December 15, 2022 at 11:24 am #19281Didn’t look bad either! 🙂 I was particularly happy to see that she was a bit “meh” during the first couple of throws but she really “came alive” after the first poke me. It is almost as if she recognised the game and was like “ah! That is what we are playing, I am all in”. Her energy was really great for some time after. It is perfectly ok to invite her to jump if she is used to doing it on cue, just make sure you only ask for it when you see her spirit is up and your request kind of fits the emotion she has. It can strengthen this trick as the tool to help her cope with scary kids as well. You can also add the hiding element – when you send her off with a good long throw, you can go hide behind the car or a pile of snow :), dogs usually get super goofy when they have to look for you for a bit. 🙂
December 24, 2022 at 6:20 pm #19357Too little play 🙈 Just a busy time. But managed a session today. Normally I use short roys. Vicki can often be scared of the ones with long lines. So today was pretty good 😁 Rit os only the last year she comes back with the toy, so I am very happy with that. Before she just ran of with it. https://youtu.be/wdPCMJzMhvQ
December 27, 2022 at 12:02 pm #19367Based on this video I could never guess she is not the biggest fan of toys. 🙂 She was great playing with both tug toy and balls. And I am sure she will get even more passionate about it if we polish some details and make you a better playing partner. 🙂
She seemed to enjoy the chase, so I wouldn’t give up on longer toys as well, but that doesn’t mean you can’t play with shorter ones as well sometimes. She got good strong bites and was actively trying to resist your pressure. Now to help her enjoy it even more, you have to let her feel like she actually has an impact. Without loosing the tension in the toy (keep pulling towards you, no matter what else you are doing) slow down the game in some situations. Stop moving the toy around actively (but keep pulling!). Make it look like she is too strong for you to “drag” around. You can both be perfectly still for some time (apart from pulling! :D) and see if she chooses to pull even more actively or shake the toy. If you keep moving her around, she can’t do that at any point, because you are that much stronger. If she will start loosing the grip when you stop the toy, you can get her to bite again, move her behind your back, keep tension and just very slowly walk forward so you are not shaking the toy left and right but just pulling her as you walk forward. If you feel her resisting strongly, you can let her drag you in her direction without loosing tension in the toy, or you can let the toy slip little by little through your hands as shown on the video and let her win.
Letting her win more often is another important point – every game is more interesting if you have a chance of winning. Don’t worry about retrieving. Let her win and see what she does. If she doesn’t retrieve, play a little “in between” and if she still never comes back, use the second toy and start a new chase.
And another very important thing – if the dog values food more than he values toys, NEVER give the dog food for releasing the toy. There was one moment where you basically pulled the toy out of her mouth and then gave her food in exchange. If you do that you only decrease the value of the toy itself and reduce the desire of the dog to “fight” for the toy, because there is no point in winning it. In best case scenario the dogs just hold on passively and wait for an “ok” – a signal that a food is coming. But in this case playing is not any more rewarding than performing any other trick to be “payed” with food.
It also only works if the dog is feeling relaxed and goofy enough for playing. If you want to build the value of playing to the point where it will “hold” even when the dog is not in the best mood, you have to build up the value of playing itself. You do that by allowing the dog to feel strong and win often and even if he gets food to complement playing, it should come after they already win, so they feel additionally motivated to “fight” and win. 🙂January 1, 2023 at 8:41 pm #19408Tried to fellow instructions but not easy 🙈
January 3, 2023 at 7:29 pm #19419That was really good! She was enjoying having more power in this game! When she was still fresh she was really enthusiastically pushing the toy back at you when you released the toy and that is really good! Even later when she started doing her victory laps she was stopping and looking at you so she was definitely acknowledging you as a fun training partner! When she runs away with the toy you can give her a moment and then try a little bit of in between – see if you can provoke her into chasing you. If not, you can always sit back down at some point and invite her back. She was great at responding to it.
When it comes to chasing – make the chase a bit shorter and straight away from her. Try to clear out obstacles so she doesn’t misunderstand things. Don’t change directions – I feel like she stopped and moved away when you turned towards her to do a little left and right movement with the toy. Try to just go straight and away from her with speed that allows her to catch the toy relatively easily but still dynamic enough to spark an interest for chase. If she avoids the bite even like this, you can have her chase you a little and then just before she is supposed to bite, throw the toy further ahead.January 12, 2023 at 6:15 pm #19494Very pleaded with this one. Have done cone woth luring before but she has never enjoyed it. Today I felt she did
January 13, 2023 at 10:04 am #19496Yes she definitely looked engaged and happy to be doing it! 🙂 When that is her attitude you can expand the exercise some more – when outside or in your training facility, you can have her offer to go around the wing (not a full multi wrap, just 180 or 270 degrees depending on starting position and your position at the end) and reward in a very dynamic way. At first stay really close to the wing or even sit down so it looks like an exercise she recognises. Make several repetitions in a row and slowly increase the distance towards the wing. Let her offer it to you completely independently, don’t try to direct her there with either verbal or non verbal cues. Go closer if the distance ever gets too big.
When doing it at home you can add cues and possibly even work on some verbal discrimination when you feel she understands the different cues for one and another direction. When you start with discrimination you can have her in middle, neutral position, between your legs. If you start her on your left side for example, offering the left turn will be way more difficult than offering the right so she will probably not want to do it.
Still try to play short sessions of food games and toy games – it can just be a minute daily, but find time to just goof around with her, without any training attached to it. 🙂 -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
› Forums › Let`s play – Winter 2022 › Students › Kate and Vicki. Vicki 4 years old American Cocker Spaniel


