› Forums › Let`s play – Spring 2022 › Students › Ali and Mooli, 4 year old mixed breed, Spain
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Alison Elflett.
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April 11, 2022 at 2:50 pm #18684
Hi Polona, thanks for your comments. Re your question about why I sat down at 0:39, if I remember correctly, as I go off camera just before, I could tell he was losing interest a bit and I think I thought I would try tugging on his level in case he liked it better.
April 11, 2022 at 2:51 pm #18685I kept the engagement game shorter in this video and combined with a couple of obstacles. I tried to make it more fluent, moving from food throws to obstacles.
April 11, 2022 at 2:54 pm #18686Mooli has already learnt a few things with shaping, so I decided to try getting him to walk backwards. I wasn’t sure how to start, but this seemed to work. But… how should I continue? Should I put something on the floor behind him as a kind of target to touch with his back paws? I’m a bit stuck.
April 11, 2022 at 2:57 pm #18687Luring: I haven’t really used luring much before. I think I was doing what you said not to, to start with, ie hovering or pushing him. It worked better when I kept my hand a bit away. Looking forward to your feedback!
April 11, 2022 at 2:58 pm #18688Finally, can you tell me if this is right for active stay??
April 12, 2022 at 1:40 pm #18701Engagement game – nice. Once you start doing the obstacles you can switch to food throws/crazy ball dynamics where you throw and run in the opposite direction but asking him to do some obstacles on the way (if there are any) than throw again, run back where you came from and again ask him to take obstacle(s) on the way back. So in your case for example – tunnel, throw, run in the opposite direction, tunnel again, throw, than run away again taking the first red tunnel and than the second red tunnel before the next throw, than turn around and ask for second tunnel and the first tunnel again. Playing through obstacles like you can see on this (very old :D) video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIer0PuiHiE.
Shaping – yes, that is a good way to start shaping back. Target behind him is definitelly one of the next steps, but first you can get some more fluency by placing reward between his front feet after click. That will give you some additional steps back. You can repeat it as long as you can reach there/or throw the treat in place… and than re-start it by placing the treat in between your legs again.
Once you get more than just a few steps, place a target behind him yes and give him big jackpot when he reaches it. Make sure he can feel the target (like a folded towel for example) but it is not too high as he might not want to step on it when he doesn’t see what it is.Luring – that was quite a difficult one to start with, but he did well. I would probably try luring him in the same way I show for lateral walking and I would just go all around with him. Like you two are joined with a stick and are always staying at opposite ends of each other. This way he will get used to moving his hind legs around the object. Than I would go back to luring the way you tried it – and yes, be mindful that you don’t hoover over him too much. In the beginning don’t ask for too much, click and reward each time his hind feet move. So he has the information to focus on and channel his efforts too. If you ask for too much at once he can’t really organise his thoughts well.
April 12, 2022 at 1:44 pm #18702Sorry forgot about active stay – yes, that is generally correct. Given that he alread has an understanding about staying, you can keep him in position longer, but keeping him very focused and creating some anticipation before the release. Once he sits you can walk away really slowly, keeping the hand with the treat or toy visible so he can look at it at all times. You can build some anticipation by saying “ready… steaaaady…” and Bam – give him his release cue, start running and throw the toy. If he ever breaks the stay just run back and repeat, fast and staying happy and relaxed. Just “oou, lets try again” 🙂 We want the dog to realise that there is no fun release without the wait.
April 13, 2022 at 6:54 pm #18709Hello! I tried combining balls with tunnels today, as you suggested, but he wasn’t very interested in the balls. Maybe I didn’t engage him properly at the start, or went too quickly to the tunnel? Anyway, I swapped to food throws, which he was really into, and then did a second session of that a bit later.
April 13, 2022 at 6:57 pm #18710I finished with a mini hide and seek session, which, from my side, was quite frankly, rubbish, ha ha! This game is clearly not my strong point, but in spite of me being nowhere near quick enough, Mooli seemed to enjoy himself. Tomorrow we’re going to work on the shaping and luring again.
April 13, 2022 at 7:06 pm #18711I forgot to say that I’m really noticing a change in Mooli. Lots of small things, such as more “happy” faces, more wanting to be with me, going straight to the field when we go to play (instead of maybe hanging around sniffing). Also, on walks, I’m noticing that when he’s alone with me (without our other two dogs) and we go past a “tricky” spot in the village (eg big dogs barking and jumping at the fence as we walk past), he’s more likely to pass without showing stress.
April 15, 2022 at 7:27 am #18716“ I forgot to say that I’m really noticing a change in Mooli. Lots of small things, such as more “happy” faces, more wanting to be with me, going straight to the field when we go to play (instead of maybe hanging around sniffing). Also, on walks, I’m noticing that when he’s alone with me (without our other two dogs) and we go past a “tricky” spot in the village (eg big dogs barking and jumping at the fence as we walk past), he’s more likely to pass without showing stress.”
That is really good to hear! Great job you2!
Crazy balls – To me he didn’t look like he lacks interest for balls, he just wasn’t ready to swap them fluently. So it is something you can work on separatelly. Possibly on a big field, so you can run (and keep running) far away after the first throw. If the handler moves away from the dog and the distance is big already, dogs are usually more likely to follow. You can also try crazy balls food throws exchange in a more passive setup, maybe at your garden where the distances are really small. Roll the toy in one direction and as soon as he picks it up, show him food and throw it in the other direction. Than toy again. If at some point he doesn’t want to chase balls anymore, you just insist and keep rolling/throwing the ball and playing with it yourself until he gets interested and picks it up again. At that point get enthusiastic and throw food again…
On agility field just use food throws because they worked perfectly. You can do something similar on whatever setup you have there, also over some jups or jump&tunnel combo.
When you do engagement game before start, move more after he offers you attention. You can turn around, away from him, so you can move more freely. You run to change location but you talk to him the whole time and give the treat in the process. Than freeze again…Haha yes, it is hard to be fast enough to really hide. You can drop (not thorw) more than one treat on the ground so he spends some time searching for them, or you have to throw the treat really far. But the most important part of this game is to have fun anyway. 🙂
April 15, 2022 at 8:25 am #18721Thanks for the feedback! Will do as you say and work on the balls away from the agility field.
Yesterday we worked on the shaping and luring. I think it’s clear (especially from the Sideways video) that I have a problem doing luring and using the clicker at the same time – it morphs into shaping! Is it essential to use the clicker for the luring exercises, or could I do it without?
April 15, 2022 at 9:03 pm #18728“When you do engagement game before start, move more after he offers you attention. You can turn around, away from him, so you can move more freely. You run to change location but you talk to him the whole time and give the treat in the process. Than freeze again…”
I tried this today and I gave up using the lead to be able to run further. I think it worked ok. The other things I wanted to achieve here were 1) leave him in a stay and lead out a fair way with the tug (which you suggested before) and 2) move from tugging to food throws with the tunnel.April 17, 2022 at 7:43 pm #18738Good observations! 🙂 Very nice engagement game. Yes you can abslutely let go of the leash to create even more dynamic routine. But also practise not letting it go sometimes so if you are on a competition and you can’t let him go, you are used to handling the leash as well and he doesn’t get turned off by it. Also great leadout into a chase! You can increase the distance some more and sometimes do it with the toy not visible – pull it out from under your shirt once you release him. Sometimes you can throw a ball or food too, so there is an element of surprise, but mostly use whatever he loves most.
And yes, your luring is indeed more shaping than luring. 🙂 I will sometimes lure without the clicker, especially if I need both hands for it, but in that case I will use very clear verbal marker such as “yes” or “ok” to mark the exact moment I want to reward. You see when you are luring the dog is not thinking as much as when shaping anyway, because they are distracted by the food in front of them. So to make sure they pay attention to what got them the reward, it is important to mark it well.
In general I am not “glued” to the method, I use whatever works best for the individual dog and the trick I am trying to teach. Even if it wasn’t clean shaping, he learned to side step really well! For pivoting you can decide if you want to improve your luring skills (try both hands together, directly in front of his muzzle and try to navigate him to move as if you2 were attached to the opposite ends of each stick) or focus on teaching him as fast as possible – in that case perhaps you could continue with shaping. In that case I would establish a triangle aproach (as you can see on 0.28 on this video – if the dog starts right next to you they immediately offer more steps because they generally want to get in position where they can see you better). When he gets stuck you can hold the treat in front of his nose to keep him in place and step behind him. When you are in place, take the hand with the treat away and he will start circling to get in front of you again.April 18, 2022 at 8:52 am #18748Thank you! I have a question re competitions. My gut tells me I should pause competing while we’re doing the course because I’m afraid it might affect the progress we’re making in the growing connection between us. In fact, I’ve been putting off doing what you suggested a while back (8 April): “while sometimes you can do the whole starting routine – ask him to sit, walk away and release over an obstacle” because the start routine stresses me out. Over the past few months, we would get into position and he would just sit there or walk off when I released him (in competitions, which I then stopped, and even in training) and I suppose I’m afraid that this will happen again. At the same time I know that the only way to get over this is to work on it, make it fun so that he wants to do it and for me to stop stressing out about it.
Anyway, my question… At the end of the month we have a competition at our club. I was thinking of taking Mooli and when I’m not working, playing some games with him in the competition atmosphere. Is this a good idea?
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› Forums › Let`s play – Spring 2022 › Students › Ali and Mooli, 4 year old mixed breed, Spain


