Forums Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 Students Kristina & Myle, Miniature Schnauzer, 4 years, Lithuania

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  • #8844
    Kristina Jugulyte
    Participant

      Yeah, i got your point. Will try to combine inside and outside trainings.
      “Little sequences – I loved how she got faster and faster towards the end!” Exactly, towards the end :-). Some time ago I noticed that she needs time to get the speed, she is not a sprinter at the very beginning of the course. I hope after these short sprint games we will solve this issue or at least improve sprint skills.
      Today we participated in a competition. We won second place (A2) 🙂
      First course

      And the second one

      I had no idea how she runs, because we didnt train long courses from September. It was very nice to come back.
      I participated without expecting any results, just to have a good time – this our club annual Christmas competition.

      #8849
      Polona Bonač
      Keymaster

        Congrats! Second run looked very cool! Much better speed than first one. I think it was partly because of the start, you really pumped her up before the second one, and in first one you started without connection. I would always leave her as far away from the first jump as possible, to make sure she already feels like she has some catching up to do and to develop some speed already before she comes to the first obstacle. You might need to practise that sometimes, to make sure she can manage that first bar without dropping it, but it will help her speed for sure.

        #8854
        Kristina Jugulyte
        Participant

          Next week i am going on a business trip, so Myle will have a vacation.
          What would you recommend to do after I come back (16 December) – to concentrate on a lesson 4 and practice lesson 3 when we have free time? Or should I consistently do lesson 3 and catch up everybody later?

          And one more question about competitions. Can we participate in a competition or it is better to suspend competitions while we are playing “Lets play agility” games to reach better result?

          #8857
          Polona Bonač
          Keymaster

            I wouldn’t skip lesson 3. I suggest you just do one easy lesson 1-2 training first when you get home and in the following ones, you can do sequences from 3-4 combined with some games from 1-2 and also start working on “problematic” obstacles – or the ones that could be faster/more reliable.

            I wouldn’t compete every weekend, but a competition now and than is ok – choose the one with nice judges (fluent courses) and good surface.

            #8946
            Kristina Jugulyte
            Participant

              Here is our lesson 3.
              Firstly we started with seesaw. I am not sure if I did everything correct from technical side, because sometimes Myle jumped over it, you see in the video. But maybe it was just a coincidence because of unusual position. I tried to play few times to check whether she “pushes” seesaw with all 4 legs. After that I put a barrier before the seesaw and was running together with dog.

              After seesaw exercise we practiced longwalk. We do longwalk as a running zone (I mean without stopping at he end), its not very ideal and sometimes Myle jumps, we working on this issue and do it almost every training. Running longwalk I also connected few barriers and a long tunnel (its wasnt taken in the shot) to reach some speed. The course was very simple, just a straight line to gain maximum sprint speed.

              And the last activity this evening – simple straight course with two tunnels and barriers. I used specific part of a course which was already prepared for others. My goal was the same – to make running fun, fast and reach maximum speed without tricky turns.

              It looks like she was enjoying, next time I plan to add few challenges to stimulate her brains :-).

              #8955
              Polona Bonač
              Keymaster

                Really happy with her overall attitude and speed! 🙂 And yours too! It sounded like you were both having lots of fun, made me feel good just listening to your laugh. 🙂 That is the spirit! And I think she made one step forward, she seems faster than when we started!

                See-saw not bad. Don’t worry if she jumps over sometimes. It is new for her and jumping from the side, she has to be very precise to stop exactly on the plank. Sometimes you don’t have to ask for full stop, when she jumps on and pushes the plank off strong, you can release her immediately into a throw. And I would do less full see-saw repetitions at the end. In fact I would do none at all, just focus on the banging game for a while. She won’t forget how the whole obstacle is done, but if she enjoys that falling/banging part more, she will not feel the need to stop early.

                DW – overall nice training. How did you train running DW? Which method? She has very deep hits at first, but she was decelerating a lot. Towards the end, she is going faster but her hits are higher. Still good, but if I understand how exactly she was trained, I might be able to think of something to help her keep good speed and depth…

                Fun game at the end! I think she was really putting lots of effort into running. I think she can for sure handle more challenges in little sequences!

                #8959
                Kristina Jugulyte
                Participant

                  😀 😀 this is how we work. My dog is one of those, who needs emotions and lot of fun. all the time i have to create mini circus and spread various sounds to give her joy and encourage to work better, run faster. if I see her efforts, as in the previous training, I try harder as well. she was in working mood last evening, it was a good session.

                  “And I would do less full see-saw repetitions at the end. In fact I would do none at all, just focus on the banging game for a while.”. I got it. Just wanted to show you Myle’s attitude to a see-saw in general, i think it is one of her favourite obstacles in the course.

                  “Fun game at the end!” After i switched off camera i understood that i forget a jackpot :-). so i repeated short running once again with full speed and rewarded with lot of food. It was my mistake that I forget to take more toys and had just one ball. But the food was even better reward for her than playing, i am almost sure.

                  DW is a complicated issue for us at the moment. from the very beginning i taught her to stop at the end. two years we were running with a short pause. on spring i decided that pause at the end decreases her speed and decided to re-teach her to do DW as a running zone. i taught her without any specific method, simply based on my personal knowledge after watching few videos. it wasnt a good decision.
                  so what did we do. firstly i asked her to run, actually even to walk, DW from the beginning and touch the zone 100 % all the time. we didnt use any target. after some time, I asked her to run from a higher DW position. without pushing to run fast, on a normal speed. when she touched the zone correctly, I rewarded with food machine, if she didnt, i asked to repeat once again and after she did correctly, rewarded. we are still working at the same stage, time after time i increase the high, but I avoid to run all DW from the beginning to the end very often.
                  I am not sure if this method makes sense, probably no, but now i dont know how to improve it and just continue.
                  what do we have now – DW are high, sometimes she jumps without touching zone…

                  #8962
                  Polona Bonač
                  Keymaster

                    ” all the time i have to create mini circus and spread various sounds to give her joy and encourage to work better, run faster.”
                    Yes, but what I liked so much is that you sounded like you are really having fun, not just trying to encourage her because you know you have to. That is the part I liked so much. 🙂

                    “Just wanted to show you Myle’s attitude to a see-saw in general, i think it is one of her favourite obstacles in the course.”
                    Yes, she is quite happy with it, but still stops a bit too soon, so this jumping game can help her be even more pushy and run all the way to the very end.

                    DW – Hja. The general concept is not wrong, but the key is always to find balance between thinking/understanding and doing it full speed. Rewarding hits in very low speed can help the understanding, but some dogs won’t naturally speed up or they will speed up, but not know how to hit the contact with that speed. How long would you say you are stuck at the same point with no improvements? If it is not for too long, it might still work, if you stick to your criteria and mix between starting from various spots on DW and doing full speed repetitions. But if you have been doing that for very long time and there is no general improvement, perhaps you need to consider some kind of modification – perhaps introducing the target, but first teaching her to hit it with full speed on the ground…

                    #8965
                    Kristina Jugulyte
                    Participant

                      Last evening we were running different combinations of your prepared course from lesson 3.
                      First run. I guess it was her best speed from the very beginning, i mean from the first obstacle. Usually she needs some time and gains speed after 3-4 obstacles.

                      second combination:

                      and the third one:

                      Each course I run twice and rewarded her at the end with food or toy. I have noticed, that at the second round of each course Myle becomes faster. I tried to run just one round (from 1 to 8), but she was running so-so – didnt put all efforts and didnt reach best speed. So all next courses i run twice and each time I lost my breath, omg 🙂

                      Coming back to DW. On my method we are working maybe 6 months or even more. Sometimes she touches zone, but being honestly, fails accurate quite often when she runs full DW .

                      #8968
                      Polona Bonač
                      Keymaster

                        Yes you are right, she is always faster the second time. 🙂 Perhaps it is because her confidence rises when she thinks she knows the course, or simply because she knows that the more she does, the closer she is to her reward. 🙂 Either way, I think all the “chaining” drills will be good for her. But I would also practise explosive starts – just one to three obstacles at once. Sometimes starting with her, creating as much excitement as possible. Sometimes with a lead out – but as far away from the first jump as possible (I am talking really a lot – 15,20m if you have enough space). So she has to develop lots of speed already before she reaches the first obstacle. Make those starts different, but always just 2,3 obstacles.

                        So on some trainings practise longer sequences using different kind of chaining. And on some trainings practise starts and for example dog walk/see-saw/slalom,… work on individual obstacles.

                        DW – perhaps you could try and teach her the target the way I explain in my lesson. It is something you can do at home/in front of your house/at your walk, and you can’t loose anything by training it. If we see she is really good at it and she likes it, we can combine it with her DW training and see if that is a missing puzzle to her understanding. 😉

                        #8982
                        Kristina Jugulyte
                        Participant

                          We started to play with target

                          Firstly my dog was little bit confused what to do on this carpet, but after few tries i think she got the point.
                          I have few questions:
                          1. Can I play with target each evening and feed her dinner this way? I think it will take approx. 10-15 mins; It wont be to often and too much?
                          2. Now I use two commands – OK for the start and her name – Myle – to turn and come back. Should I enter DW command for the start while playing with target at home? Our normal DV command is “forward forward”. Do I have to use it now, or just when we start to run an real DW?
                          3. We have food machine. Myle is crazy for this machine. Maybe i can use machine for rewarding at this stage instead of giving food from hand?

                          Tomorrow i plan to go to agility field to play with “start” and other stuff. I’ll send you a video in the evening.

                          #8985
                          Polona Bonač
                          Keymaster

                            Yes, target is a simple exercise and dogs usually love it. 🙂 However there are some things I would change. First of all, I like to do this exercise with pure shaping, just sitting quietly and letting the dog offer the behaviour on its own, without pointing to the target or doing anything else to stimulate it. When the dog is on the target, it is time to get happy and loud. 🙂 But I wouldn’t call her name. Because it makes it almost more about recall than about the target. So instead of calling her name I would just click or give an “ok”, “yes”, something like that and present the treat so the dog will come back naturally. IT is all in function of independence. I don’t want my dog to focus on me here, it has to be all about the target.

                            “1. Can I play with target each evening and feed her dinner this way? I think it will take approx. 10-15 mins; It wont be to often and too much?”
                            Yes, you can. Shaping at home is usually never boring, but you can shorten it by giving bigger amount of treats for each “click” or you can just do a couple of minutes and than feed the rest from her bowl, or change to some other trick you want to teach.

                            “2. Now I use two commands – OK for the start and her name – Myle – to turn and come back. Should I enter DW command for the start while playing with target at home? Our normal DV command is “forward forward”. Do I have to use it now, or just when we start to run an real DW?”
                            So partly I already answered this question. At this point I actually wouldn’t use any cues. I would let her offer it and when she consistently offers it on her own, you can add a gentle cue such as “tap tap” and use it just before she is going to offer it anyway. It is just to give this target a certain name, so later on during the process you can help her focus on the target if she gets lost. In a final version of the exercise I don’t give any cues, just the general DW cue and the dog should know it means a complete DW, including the behaviour on the contact. 🙂

                            “3. We have food machine. Myle is crazy for this machine. Maybe i can use machine for rewarding at this stage instead of giving food from hand?”
                            It will be useful in some stages of training, but I don’t want to teach the dog that target and machine always come in a package, because than later on it is sometimes difficult to get them to do the right thing even when they don’t see the machine. So save it for later, we will use it when you start adding different handler positions and really running through the target.

                            I would do another session or two at home. Gradually changing your position and adding your movement. Just walking slowly up and down and rewarding with a food throw in each direction. When we are happy with how she does, we will move this game outside and add more speed.

                            #8989
                            Kristina Jugulyte
                            Participant

                              So, yesterday we were working on starts. As you advised, starting point was approx. 15 meters from the first barrier. We tried various combinations on the parcours which was already prepared for another group, reward after 3-4 obstacles. Sorry for insufficient lighting!

                              One more try. Obviously A frame was too close to our starting position :-). Later I tried to start in front of Myle (approx. 2 m distance). Her speed was more or less the same as first time.

                              Yesterday she wasnt on a working mood. She ran without any excitement, just because i asked. At least she was trying.

                              And here is our seesaw progress. I was trying to force her to jump on the small platform first and start seasaw from the higher point this way, but she was very stubborn 😀 (normally she jumps on that platform, but I guess there is no big difference whether to use platform or not). This game she enjoyed more

                              #9002
                              Polona Bonač
                              Keymaster

                                Seems like you girls had fun again. 🙂 The small things I would change – I loved everything about the starts, but when practising starts, reward sooner, no later than after 3rd obstacle. If you keep going, she doesn’t expect anything exciting to happen at the very beginning, so it just contributes to her “diesel” mode – slow start, getting faster and faster throughout the sequence. I would practise both, “flying” starts and sit&wait, but with “anticipation building” – just like you did it.
                                Not quite sure what was going on with that “under the bar” thing. Sometimes when you make distances so big, that distracts them. But she wen’t under the jump in the middle of the sequence as well. So perhaps it was the lightening or just an overall sense of hurry. I think if it happens a lot in one sequence/session, you can gently correct it. Just turn around, run back, call her playfully and give a strong “jump jump” cue again to help her. And of course a lot of happy stuff when she does jump.

                                See-saw – looking good, but for this height she doesn’t need a platform yet. That is what she was trying to tell you. 😉 So just go on without it, until she really struggles to jump on directly. But I think she will need a larger platform at that point, it is easier for them to jump out of full speed if they don’t have to “narrow it down” to a very small space.

                                #9009
                                Kristina Jugulyte
                                Participant

                                  “Not quite sure what was going on with that “under the bar” thing”. Myle was simply cheating :-). Actually she never does like this, I remember just one more time when she did the same. As it is not repeated action, I didnt want to kill her mood and didnt pay much attention, just next running i was shouting “jump, jump” before each barrier, everything was ok.

                                  Here is our next try with target. First few times I recalled her using “ok”, but as i saw she doesnt need it, later just sit quietly. It looks like she understands what to do at this stage, but there is no speed. Is it normal and we will add speed later, or should i try to increase her speed already now?

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                                Forums Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 Students Kristina & Myle, Miniature Schnauzer, 4 years, Lithuania