Forums Let’s play obedience – Winter 2022 Students Lori & Skadattle, Sheltie, 1.5 yr, Canada – Spring 2023

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  • #19798
    Lori Rossi
    Participant

      Hello again! Looking forward to working through this course. We are complete obedience beginners 🙂 Hoping for some great foundations for heeling and attention that is FUN.

      #19806
      Polona Bonač
      Keymaster

        Welcome! Looking forward to more of Skadattle in action. 🙂

        #19857
        Lori Rossi
        Participant

          This is our first time with Go Around. She is used to me doing this with my feet apart to set “middle” between my ankles before an agility run, so she’s not quite sure about going all the way around yet. But we are trying. We are also working the other skills. The fast hand touch is easy. The long hand touch she is attacking my fist and trying to eat my hand. I will film that for feedback. The pivoting is familiar. However the independent elephant is hard. We will keep working and add other videos soon!

          #19858
          Lori Rossi
          Participant

            So yeah. Fast nose touch this session turned into “fast bite Lori’s hand” 🤦🏻‍♀️ Help. She chatters her teeth like a Malinois.

            #19867
            Polona Bonač
            Keymaster

              You are on the right track with “go around”. She already seems to be understanding the difference with “in between” and she is going fast and tight. The only thing left to do, is working towards greater independence and fading out the body help. 🙂
              Nose touch – haha yes, I can see she gets pretty wild! There is no need to practise quick touches anymore for a while and we will have to change her mindset a little to build duration. So first thing you are going to try and build is an “anticipation freeze” – you will place the hand with a treat up against your chest and wait for her to fixate it and stay completely still in expectation of it being deliver. Click when you see that complete stillness even if for just one short moment and slowly build on that. When placing your hand in starting position you can also say something like “ready…” or just big inhale and hold your breath for a little bit, to encourage anticipation even more. Once she is nice and “tight” in front you, you will start slowly bringing the hand down for a touch. You can keep the second hand just below the one she touches and have several treats in it, so you can reward as much “in position” as possible and she doesn’t take her head far away from your hands in between repetitions.

              #19868
              Lori Rossi
              Participant

                Okay thanks I will definitely try that anticipation exercise because we really need help with the long duration touch. I’ll save the video for another day but essentially she is just biting the crap out of my fist.

                Here are some more videos:
                Pivoting – I was trying to reward with calm front feet but was failing at my rewards. However she is turning her hind end both ways.

                Front feet – I noticed I missed a couple times when she was still. I found I had to trade off and make a decision between sometimes one of her feet not in great position but having stillness vs. Both feet nicely on the board but she is tap dancing. Which would you reinforce before you expect more? Not totally great position but stillness or great position but slight movement?

                And last video … backing up. This is painful to watch. I missed a couple hind feet movements. This feels like it’s going to take forever. And sometimes she gets stuck in the sit position. Am I doing the right thing by restarting her or should I be doing something else?

                #19877
                Polona Bonač
                Keymaster

                  First of all sorry I have been so late with replies these days, it turned out to be a rather chaotic week. I will do better I promise!
                  Pivoting – the main thing “agility handlers” have to REALLY get used to in obedience is not to hurry. We all tend to do things quickly and not give the dog enough time to settle. So when you are practising pivoting, take your time in each position before you move again. I usually take a whole bunch of treats in the hand close to the dog, so when I stop I can reward repetitively (with differently timed breaks in between) in position. Once the dog realises static positions are desirable and “payed” well they are more proned to stillness. If you are moving all the time the brain can’t process being still in time and it results in restlessness. If the dog wants to offer movement in between rewards, you deliver them super quickly so you don’t give them time to move and again create sort of anticipation freeze.
                  FF target – same principle applies here. Sit close to the target and as soon as she first steps on it, start rewarding repetitively, gradually prolonging the breaks between each reward. If you get nice stillness with legs not perfectly in position, you can occasionally reward that especially if she had a “messy” period before, but don’t overdo it – not sticking to a criteria can lead to a confusion about what the exercise is all about.
                  Backing up – to help her get started you can sit on the chair and throw a cookie underneath. She will automatically back up to get out of it, so you can mark that and reward with a treat right underneath her belly – reaching for it will cause her to back up even further. That way you can stimulate her into offering it more frequently and give her enough successful repetitions to learn from.

                  #19960
                  Lori Rossi
                  Participant

                    So we are still working on focus (without biting my hands), and still feet, and back up. Here is our practice with 1/4 turn elephant. This is one of the first times we tried without a pedestal. Too early?

                    #19961
                    Lori Rossi
                    Participant

                      Here’s a little more on FF stillness today https://youtu.be/7UgOTjmA_ZM

                      #19962
                      Lori Rossi
                      Participant

                        Also can you give advice on how to start the move from dog facing front in a sit to flipping to my left side? Should I put the target bowl in front of me and then give her a cue?

                        #19983
                        Polona Bonač
                        Keymaster

                          Looking good! Lots of improvement! Pivots without target were ok movement wise, so I don’t think she needs the target anymore for it. But there are couple of things you have to be mindful off. Watch for proper focus before you make your move. You can still keep things much calmer and slower to begin with. Several slow rewards in each position. Make sure she stands independently not leaning into you like at 0.11 for example. All your movement while rewarding can be really slow. Hand goes down and up slowly. You wait, hold your breath, wait for her to close her mouth and focus completely and give her another slow treat. Again wait for her to re-focus before moving. Second half of the session she had really nice focus!
                          Also keep an eye on how much in front she positions herself. Smaller dogs in particular have the tendency to move too much in front. If you see her too much “in front” to begin with, you can always reset the position and ask her to come in heel again. And you can also position your hand a bit further back on your hip, so she she has the motivation to stay back.

                          FF – she is trying so hard and can keep still very well once the initial frenzy is over. 🙂 To minimise that, throw a treat behind her back so she has a straight approach towards the target. That way she doesn’t have to pivot and you can “catch” her with your hand very early to help her stay still.

                          And about your last question – yes I do it with the target. But there is one catch. At first when the dog is still getting used to the movement you have to change position slightly during the exercise or she will end up in a wrong position. If you place the target straight in front of you to get a good front position, you have give her a permission to pivot while at the same time you move forward and to the right of the target, otherwise she will be croocked – ff in front of you, hf next to you. So I will often just keep the target next to me and lure the dog into a stay/sit in front of me (not standing on the target) and let the dog step on it only when he starts pivoting. Hope that makes sense?

                          #20013
                          Lori Rossi
                          Participant

                            Makes sense! Here I tried it. I’m trying really hard to be calmer and not let her push me but mannn watching the video I realize I still need to be slower and calmer delivering those rewards! Work in progress. Here is our attempt at moving from a front position to a finish position. https://youtu.be/r97Ebjki4Dw

                            #20017
                            Polona Bonač
                            Keymaster

                              ” I’m trying really hard to be calmer and not let her push me but mannn watching the video I realize I still need to be slower and calmer delivering those rewards!”
                              haha yes! I know it is terribly hard. When I first started to do obedience after years of agility, I was being “corrected” for the same thing over and over and over again. Slow is just not in our system to begin with. 😀 But the pure fact you are already recognising it, is a sign it is slowly coming. You can help yourself with counting. You can count to 5 slowly each time before you even reward and after reward – before you reward again or ask for the next thing.
                              You were doing everything right generally, except for being too fast still and a little bit sloppy at times. I am only pointing this out because it is my job and so you can keep improving, but otherwise it is a perfectly normal process and it takes a long time. 🙂
                              Given that you didn’t use target for the front position, you don’t have to move at all once you tell her to finish. She has to complete the turn on her own, if you move you offer help that won’t be there in the end, so it is better not to use it in the first place. 🙂
                              If she leans like at 0.20 – lure her into an independent sit before giving food. If it happens several time in a row, lure her in a correct position, but don’t reward, give verbal prise and re-do.
                              And as I mentioned before – each time before you either give reward or a cue for something, count to 5, slowly. 😀

                              #20047
                              Lori Rossi
                              Participant

                                Here we go trying to practice a little more patience. I am practicing the other things, I’ll video more different things soon. We can take half a step forward and sideways. Back not really but we will keep practice and upload a video soon. Here’s a new one from tonight. I notice still rewarding tap dancing (bad mom) but I think (?) a little more stillness at some parts.

                                #20055
                                Polona Bonač
                                Keymaster

                                  That is way better! Really nice progress. I love how intense and fast she is going in position. Try keeping your hand in a natural position, hanging by your hip – that way it is closer to her, so you can deliver the first reward faster. Also when it is up the way you are holding it now it pumps up anticipation and that is why you get those little barks and “crazy feet” right after she takes the position. So when you have the hand lower, just above her nose, she will probably switch to this anticipation freeze/stillness sooner. Anyway, once that initial nervousness passes, she focuses into a perfect still basic position soon afterwards which is great. At this angle I can’t be sure about it but it looks like she wants to lean in at the very beginning of each attempt – be careful about that. But other than that – thumbs up! You can start fading out the target I think.

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                                Forums Let’s play obedience – Winter 2022 Students Lori & Skadattle, Sheltie, 1.5 yr, Canada – Spring 2023