› Forums › Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 › Students › Elena & Indie, Miniature Schnauzer, 7 months old
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Elena Gasparaki.
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November 13, 2018 at 1:41 pm #8487
Hi all!
Me and Indie just finished LP class and i am very happy with our progress – thank you Polona for that!
I am happy to see more people with Mini Schnauzers in the class 🙂 hi Kristina and WeenSze 🙂 i also have a 4 year old mini Schnauzer who is competing in agility and i am happy to see more of these little devils working 🙂
Looking forward to try the puppy exercises 🙂Polona i have some questions!
1. regarding the target, does it have to be of some specific size? also, in the begining, i reward standing (like i have already done with other objects) or just passing from the target? i guess that i should begin the exercise indoors right?
2. i have found some videos in YouTube regarding teaching backward and sideways walking, bowing, sit pretty, stand and lifting different paws. most of them use luring (always click before reward). do you have any other suggestions?sorry for the big post, i am just excited to have new staff to work on 🙂
November 13, 2018 at 5:05 pm #8491here is our first session for cik/cap 🙂 (sorry for the many messages)
November 13, 2018 at 11:13 pm #8506“1. regarding the target, does it have to be of some specific size? also, in the begining, i reward standing (like i have already done with other objects) or just passing from the target? i guess that i should begin the exercise indoors right?”
In the very beginning size doesn’t matter all that much, but later on (when I start adding speed and I need the dog to run through) I want it to be at least 60cm long and the width of the DW or wider. In the beginning I just sit on the ground somwhere next to the target and when I see the dog offers the behaviour, I move further and further away. In the next phase I get up and I reward with throws in one and another direction as the dog walks/runs through the target. Just like shown on the video. Except the very first shaping step is missing.
“2. i have found some videos in YouTube regarding teaching backward and sideways walking, bowing, sit pretty, stand and lifting different paws. most of them use luring (always click before reward). do you have any other suggestions?”
You can do all those tricks in many different ways. I will do a little bit of luring sometimes, because I find it useful for some obedience stuff and conditioning, but when they are so young I use mostly shaping for anything I can think off, because it gives much better body awareness and independence.
So teaching the dog how to back up on cue is more or less capturing – waiting for a weight shift or a tiny step with the hind legs and rewarding that patiently until the dog begins to offer the behaviour. Going backwards comes quite easily for super young pups. When they get older it depends. Some offer it quickly, some not so much. If she is stuck and you can’t get any movement, you can try this cool idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag-k9580_Qc
Or in the last case scenario just walk towards her (but you have to make sure she is standing not sitting to begin with).
For walking lateral you can start like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmvZfclsklI&list=UUIYTr45URNWQe1kM6cPgYRQ&index=105 First teach her to step up with front feet and than reward any action with the hind legs. You can develop it into a full circle like shown on the video or you can take a long and narrow object, have her step on with front and than if she has pretty much no choice other than walking lateral if she wants to offer something more.
You can quickly get paws from the hand game we were playing. Just hold the treat in your hand and reward every contact with the paws. You can start with the hand on the ground and than gradually higher and higher.Cik&cap – looking good. Start increasing the distance and developing the “multi-wrap” (you will need to be close for those, so you can mix it up, some repetitions of just 180 from distance and some with more than 180, but being close. Eventually you can start far, let her propose the first turn and while she is at it, get closer to help her with the second one. Once you feel she is pretty consistent, add cues.
November 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm #8548oh great!! more stuff to teach <3 i was also looking how to teach bow. i found that waiting for the dog to offer the position and reward is one idea (Indie offers this position when trying to catch something trapped under the couch for example) is one way of teaching it or the “luring way” is to keep food in your fist close to the ground and hold the dogs belly with your other hand (so that she does not go to the down position). i am thinking of trying the 1st way since Indie offers the position from time to time.
and here is one of today’s cak/cap session 🙂 i think she is getting it and maybe i can add the cue now? also, she is getting better with food. she is eating bigger portions now (through work or play) and her interest is hi. i still feed her through sessions 3-4 times/day but i think she has improved a lot. eating like a miniature schnauzer finally 😛
November 15, 2018 at 2:01 pm #8551Yes, good! For now you can start adding cues when she is already turning. In the next phase you can have her standing next to you and send her off with a cue. Gradually you can make things more difficult and ask for one specific direction regardless of your position. (turning towards you, turning away from you). And than you gradually add speed – more dynamic rewards, longer distance between her and the cone. But you need a non slippery surface for that.
Yes see – bowing is one of the trick I mostly teach using luring :). Luring the nose down with one hand and gently tickling the belly with the other to avoid a full lie down. Just capturing it when she is trying to get a treat from under the couch or something might not work well enough because the bow is very much a reaction to a situation and not a controlled action, but you can try and it never hurts if you do that too along with some other method. It will help her generalise better. It could also be done with absolute free shaping – just having her stand and than rewarding her for looking down and in direction of her front feet, rewarding by throwing in between her feet, slowly asking for weight shifts,… It is interesting but challenging shaping. 🙂November 16, 2018 at 4:25 pm #8569here is one of today’s sessions for cik/cap 🙂 i am saying the cue now but she only offers cap for the last two sessions! i tried to lure her into cik but she did not understand what i wanted
November 16, 2018 at 7:00 pm #8575When they get stuck with just one side, I usually sit closer and always start by giving them a treat on one of my sides – in your case it would be your right side. So when she is approaching the cone from your right, left is the obvious direction unless she tries to cross in front of the cone, but she can’t do that, because you are sitting there. Than reward every little step, don’t wait for a full turn. Like for example at 2.49 – I would give her the next treat as soon as she moved after taking the treat. Than give the reward in the direction of the left turn again,… So lower the criteria and set her up for success. 🙂 Try to work on just the left ones the next session, to balance her a little and than start mixing again.
And be careful with your clicks. Don’t just reward walking around the cone. Focus on what her head and neck are doing. Click when she is the tightest, when her head and neck are really wrapping the cone. It doesn’t matter that she does full circles at this point. The important part is that she learns to really focus on the object and go as tight as possible.November 19, 2018 at 7:47 am #8606hi Polona!
🙂here is this morning’s session of cik/cap. i was a bit unsynchronized from what i understand :/ i rewarded only cik as we have discussed before 🙂
November 19, 2018 at 9:44 pm #8611and here is the back-up shaping session from today (this is maybe the 2nd-3rd time i have done back up)
November 20, 2018 at 12:47 am #8616Really cool, great movement! Now try to throw treats in between her front feet after each click, reaching for it will make her go backwards even more and keep increasing the distance between you two.
November 20, 2018 at 7:47 am #8620thank you! can i add the cue? 🙂 i believe so 🙂
also, i have posted another video for cik/cap before the back-up video 🙂 you probably missed it bue i would love to hear your thoughts on this 🙂
November 20, 2018 at 5:01 pm #8624Oh sorry, yes I did miss it. You got walking in the “difficult” direction really quickly, so sitting a bit further was a good move, but you could help her even more efficiently with treats. I would always start her from your side (even further behind than you are sitting) and as soon as you are not sitting right next to the cone, try to get her to do a full 360 by delivering the treat further along in a circle.
And yes, you can name the back up trick 🙂
November 21, 2018 at 7:59 pm #8637i am not sure i understood correctly. please correct me if i am wrong. so, when i am standing close to the cone i should hold the treat in the hand Indie will be. and when i am away from the cone i should click and reward by a food throw in the direction i want her to go. right? have i missed something?
i am sending you a video from yesterday. i played with Indie and i have two things i am thinking of:
1. when i let go from the toy she immediately let it from her mouth and watched for my next move. i noticed that she is not doing this inside the house when we are playing, inside she usually takes the toy and run around and then sits somewhere to enjoy it. maybe it has to do with the fact that she does not feel 100% safe in another place?
2. when i call her (either to leave from this place either just to pet her) she comes towards me but not close enough for me to touch her. i never chase her. yesterday when she ignored me i just turned my back and headed to the door. she then came happily to me and tried to draw my attention. maybe i should not call her and just try to have her do that and then run again inside and have another round of play and repeat it once more? in order for her to understand that not all the times i call her we will leave the place. i am doing the relevant exercise from LP whenever i have the chance by the way. also maybe it is something that will gradually get better as we practice obedience?
(sorry for the long post)November 22, 2018 at 8:07 am #8643“i am not sure i understood correctly. please correct me if i am wrong. so, when i am standing close to the cone i should hold the treat in the hand Indie will be. and when i am away from the cone i should click and reward by a food throw in the direction i want her to go. right? have i missed something?”
Hmm, let me try and start differently. 🙂 So normally the dog should have room to make full circle around the cone. If the dog only offers one side, you “block” the way by sitting closer and encourage the difficult direction. If you than keep the dog in front of you, the only thing they can do is to do half of the turn in one direction and half in the other. That is why I call the dog back after each repetition, so I can get them to do only the “difficult” side for a while. So I would throw the treat to my right and behind me when I want to encourage the dog into a left turn, and the opposite when I want the right turn. So when they offer the correct direction, I don’t want them to turn in the middle and go in the opposite direction again, so I will click before that happens and place the treat next to the cone, further in the direction they should be turning. If I am close to the cone I slide back a bit so there is room. So I get the dog to do full 360 in one direction.“1. when i let go from the toy she immediately let it from her mouth and watched for my next move. i noticed that she is not doing this inside the house when we are playing, inside she usually takes the toy and run around and then sits somewhere to enjoy it. maybe it has to do with the fact that she does not feel 100% safe in another place?”
I think it is mostly because on the field you are more active and she values action more than possession. At home you are mostly playing in one place, so it is more about who wins and less about other activities. She could also be a bit more insecure, but also more easily distracted because there are many things going on. But if she looks at you and not around, for me that means she is waiting for your next action. 🙂 Anyway – to me the playing looks good. You can gradually include wraps. Use the cone so it is just like home. You can sit and do some repetitions that are pretty much just like at home, and when you are sure she remembers – you can let her offer it to you and than run away with the toy as a reward. When she gets good at that, we will also include some foundation exercises for handling.And yes, try to avoid calling her for when something bad (=fun stops) is happening. 🙂 Call her several times in the middle of the session and do different things. Sometimes ask for a nose touch (if you haven’t trained it yet, do it, very useful trick). Sometimes touch her and give food, than let her run again. Sometimes pull the toy out of your pocket and play. When you have to leave the field, you just walk out and when she joins you, start throwing food. Not long and fast throws, just drop treats on the ground. So she is busy with something and doesn’t think all the fun is over once you leave the field. Sometimes you can also do as you described and just run back to the field for some more fun.
In general practise recall in every situation. On your walks, at home. Don’t call her too often, because she will get bored and try to do something different and fun each time she comes, so the expectation and not knowing exactly what happens will keep her even more motivated to come as soon as she is called.November 22, 2018 at 11:31 am #8649thank you for your detailed response 🙂 it is much clearer now 🙂
also, yes, i am practising nose touch, i will take a video next time i do that and send it to you 🙂
i have one more question!
so, i have been practising with Indie 4 in a box and the “elephant” you sent me. even though the results are different for each one of those two (i can also thik that 2on2off is similar), the beginning of shaping those tricks is pretty much the same. i hope that i am making sense 🙂 so how can i discriminate those tricks in her head? for sure i am not shaping both at the same session. but since those tricks are still developing and i have not yet put a cue, i can see her for example when we are practising the elephant, some times she will lift the back paw just like she would do in 4 in a box. -
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› Forums › Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 › Students › Elena & Indie, Miniature Schnauzer, 7 months old


