› Forums › Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 › Students › Lina and Aike, pumi, 7 month, Lithuania
- This topic has 46 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by
Polona Bonač.
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November 12, 2018 at 3:11 pm #8472
Hi everyone,
we finished LP class and now are ready for special puppy lessons 🙂 Especially happy to see one more participant from my country 🙂 Labas, Kristina!
November 12, 2018 at 3:44 pm #8473Labas, Lina, nice to see you here too! The funniest fact that probably we haven’t met each other in competitions in Lithuania, and now we meet here, what a coincidence 🙂 🙂
November 13, 2018 at 5:47 pm #8492Hi, Polona, today we did first lesson with target outside. Actually, we were learning it before at home 2 or 3 months ago, and Aike still remember it 🙂
So I have some questions about targeting.
1. I named that trick “touch”. Do I have to name it at all? Or just use a clicker when dog steps on it?
2. How to react when dog runs to me and miss the target? Do we have to repeat it from beginning, I mean from that position where the dog started, or…?
3. And the same question I saw in Elena’s post – what size of target do you recommend? I have rubber pallet 30×48 cm, it is very useful when is so wet outside, but maybe it’s too small, what do you think?When we are training cik-cak I use some objects from house – plastic bottles, the pump for the sink :D, o just any tree when we are outside. Do we need to use a real cone?
November 13, 2018 at 6:58 pm #8493And one more 🙂 How to train backwards to do on object (on stairs or box)? Aike knows backwards, but when she aproach pillow (we started from pillow) she is turning to one side or sitting down.
November 13, 2018 at 7:25 pm #8497OMG i have sclerosis ?? one more: what if i will decide to post here video with Šnipe, how much i have to pay more? I’m not sure about that, but what if…?
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This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by
Lina_Zutaute.
November 13, 2018 at 11:22 pm #8507“I named that trick “touch”. Do I have to name it at all? Or just use a clicker when dog steps on it?”
At some point I give it a name, because in later stages (when already on DW) it helps if you can “remind” the dog on what they have to do. But it is not the most relevant. The understanding of the target as such is more important. So I start adding cues when the dog is basically making no mistakes anymore.“2. How to react when dog runs to me and miss the target? Do we have to repeat it from beginning, I mean from that position where the dog started, or…?”
That depends – if she is normally right, but makes a mistake once, I repeat from where I started last. But if she is more frequently wrong when at that distance, I go one step back. Bring her closer/ stop my movement/… Whatever I think might be the problem. It is really important that the dog is not just running blindly and whatever happens happens. I aways look for a high enough success rate.“3. And the same question I saw in Elena’s post – what size of target do you recommend? I have rubber pallet 30×48 cm, it is very useful when is so wet outside, but maybe it’s too small, what do you think?”
When I start adding speed I like it to be at least (or about) 60cm long and as wide as the DW is or a bit wider.“And one more ? How to train backwards to do on object (on stairs or box)? Aike knows backwards, but when she aproach pillow (we started from pillow) she is turning to one side or sitting down.”
Try to use something lower or less soft. Just a towel folded in half perhaps. So she feels there is a different feeling under her feet and that that is final position (jackpot- multiple treats). Than gradually make it higher. Placing a book under the towel,…“what if i will decide to post here video with Šnipe, how much i have to pay more? I’m not sure about that, but what if…?”
As a former LP student of mine I won’t charge for one or two videos. I am curious to see how he is doing. 🙂 If you want to work regularly with him too, than it is half the price for the second dog.November 14, 2018 at 7:04 pm #8525Thank you, Polona!
You missed one my question ?
“When we are training cik-cak I use some objects from house – plastic bottles, the pump for the sink :D, o just any tree when we are outside. Do we need to use a real cone?”Today i take Aike to agility field for first “training”. We tried tunnels – she liked them a lot ? And there i noticed one thing: when she is rewarding with treats from foodbag, her drive goes down. She very quicly catch it and then she stops for waiting when i will open the bag. After that she stops focus on me. Maybe it’s time to stop use the bag as reward? I made tennis ball as reward ball with incision and treat inside, and it works much better, Aike was running after it as real agility dog ? What do you think if we stop to use foodbag?
November 14, 2018 at 7:43 pm #8528Sorry, yes you can improvise with anything you have at home. 🙂
I would like to see her play with food bag. 🙂 Of course you can use balls for now, but for turns and stuff it is much better if you can sometimes also reward from the hand. And in that case chasing normally produces more speed than just one treat from the hand.
November 14, 2018 at 8:16 pm #8530Our shaping session – backward
November 14, 2018 at 10:25 pm #8538I’m thinkig what if i will not reward her imemdiately after she catch the foodbag, but insted of that let her tug for a while and then when she will wins only then open the bag. For now chasing is too short, she catching it and release, because she knows it is enough to open the bag.
When i throw the ball with treat inside she runs after it and bring ball to me for i could open it. We did it with tunnels. Well perhaps I’ll try both variations and will see which one works better. What do you think?Questions about shaping backward. Again, do i have to name it somehow different from just
GO BACK? Now i used the same word as usually -go back. But there is the diference when dog just go back, and when after going back steps on smth.November 15, 2018 at 1:36 pm #8549“For now chasing is too short, she catching it and release, because she knows it is enough to open the bag.”
Cccc… that is exactly what I am always telling people not to do. The second part I mean. The dog should always win the toy and than eat. Of course they won’t hold on and fight for it if you give them treats as soon as they catch it. Especially if you take the bag from her to deliver treats. So yes, do as you said :)…
And yes, try playing with balls and food pocket. Different exercises, different rewards. 🙂In general good shaping session, but she is having some issues with slippery grounds, and that is making it harder for her to step nicely on the elevated object. If you have a little yoga mat or carpet or kind of rubber puzzle flooring for kids, I would use it when you clicker train her so she doesn’t feel uncomfortable.
I wouldn’t use any cues at this point. Let her think and do things on her own. I don’t have a different cue for “step on” of just go back. I mean I do name 2on2off position eventually, but it is the name of position, the same if they back up in it or go over and stop. But back up is back up. And in this first phase I really focus on style. You can start with her just in front of the “object” and just teach her to really step on straight and coordinated. Not going sideways and all. Start with just that one step. And than when she is fluent with it, increase the distance very slowly. No hurry. With some tricks execution is really important. Backing up is one of them.November 15, 2018 at 8:33 pm #8554Oh my… lucky me to ask about it on time ? today we corrected that stupid mistake. At first Aike was a little confuced, but after she was tugging very good. What if i will make more different foodbags from others tugging toys? I’m thinking, her focus on fur toys is low, but foodbag is number one, in that case we will have more oportunities to play with. But will it be good that after each tugging Aike will be rewarded with treat? Does the game as it is could’t be as reward? Or maybe after excitment tugging battle reaward her with some treats from hand? Just thinking loud. ?
And here is second video with shaping back up.
November 16, 2018 at 4:03 pm #8567You can combine food and toys in many ways. Tugging with food pocket or doing a “play trick” (rewarding with the hand after tugging) is pretty much the same thing IF you play it well. I prefer food pocket for dogs with very low interest for toys, because the correlation is more direct. You catch a pray that has food inside. Dogs that are more interested for toys but still prefer food can also learn that they can get food through tugging. It is kind of like a trick, but a very fun one, so it is rewarding in itself. It is not just the food that is rewarding, but the whole action. In both cases it is really important that you don’t just say “ok, here is the reward” while the dog is holding on to a toy. Otherwise they are not playing, but just holding on and waiting for an “ok”. Either way they need to understand that the only way to get food is to catch it and win the “battle” with you. Even if you make it very easy in the beginning. It has to be a natural chain of events. So if you ever did play trick with her – so she understands the concept – you can easily just give treats from the pocket after she wins. If not, better to play with food pocket and yes, having more of those is practical. 🙂 So you can also switch from one to another.
Shaping – overall good, but a bit long. And your positioning of the rewards kind of encouraged her to step on sideways. When you reward her out of the position I would do that right in front of you. So she is only moving forward and backward, not sideways. 🙂
November 16, 2018 at 7:46 pm #8578Thank you, Polona!
I keep her on shaping as long as i see she is focussed. When she is tired, she just lay down or walk away. So you mean i have to finish earlier?
Today we were in agility hall for the first time and hope we could go there 2 times per week. How long could be training/playing time for Aike there? I mean, for example, 3-4 short sesions (3-4 min) and rest time in between (5 min, or do it longer?) We will have one hour for training, but it is much more than we need, but i will pay for whole hour, so thinking what else we can do there. To do some obiedience trick or shaping after agility session? O better just go home? What will be your advice?November 17, 2018 at 9:45 am #8585Yes, I don’t like shaping to always end with dog quitting. It is good to “listen” to a dog and respect his will sometimes, but stopping while they are still fresh, makes them feel better, and more eager to try it next time. If you always work until they quit, they also learn that they can quit anytime they want and sometimes it means that they will quit because they find the session more difficult than usually because of some distractions or the complexity of the task.
So when I work with my dogs I will quit when I see they are tired and no longer productive, but I will also try not to push them to that point every time.Do you bring Šnipe to when you go to train in agility hall? That would be the best. Work a small session with Aike, than have her rest while you work with Šnipe. If you take some time to think and rearrange the obstacles between each session, you can easily use an hour and give quality sessions and good enough breaks for both of them. And yes, at this point you can mix the sessions. Some agility and at the end some tricks. To avoid too many repetitions of the same drills – because that is what is most harmful to a growing body.
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› Forums › Let`s play Agility – Winter 2018 › Students › Lina and Aike, pumi, 7 month, Lithuania
