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Yari got worse under prednisolone and was quite sick for several weeks. He is now much better again, but I should only feed him hydrolysed food and treats (and one type of treat that is not hydrolysed). These work perfectly well as rewards in everyday life, and even training at home or on walks. But not for sports.
Yesterday I went to group training class for the first time in weeks. I was actually optimistic because since he got better, at home he was very motivated to work for this treat, but in the training session with other dogs around (although I don’t think they concerned him really) he was not very motivated to put much effort in for this food at all.
Very sad, as if he was healthy and I could use real high value food, he would be super motivated and focused. I have had some focus problems since I started dog dance with him, because most of the time the treats were always inferior, as I was careful not to feed him something that might not agree with him.
Today I trained some sequences with a toy on the floor. It worked quite well, he was willing to do longer sequences before getting his reward. But he was not as enthusiastic as he could be if I had sausage.
It was a matter of finding the right toy for this purpose, not too valuable so he would be unwilling to give it up, and not too low value for him to want to work for it. But it seems this toy is a good choice and I think this will need to be the way forward at least for the time being.
I do believe the ball means much to him because it depends very much on which object he has how willing he is to give it up. And he will also growl at me if he does not want me to take his prized object. It is not a real issue and I can handle it, but if I am not careful it happens. But I do think the object itself acquires a lot of value. I could watch previously with other toys how we would very happily retrieve toys for a food reward, but once I started throwing them, so there was the association of the object with the chase, they became more valuable and he became reluctant to give them up.
Now somehow the raspberry balls seem to have higher value even than tennis balls, making me pessimistic for cooperation longterm, especially since now he does not even get sausage or cheese anymore.
Yesterday he was actually quite good at bringing me the tennis ball (which I hold on a long line) in training, which is already much progress from when we started.But the problem is, as you said:
Possession of toys (“having the mouth full”) is more valuable than tugging, and to some extent even than chasing a thrown toy. So these are not the right reinforcers for giving up the ball (of course I will try to follow you tips by throwing the food, and rewarding already further away, which certainly helps).
And the food is not good enough to be worth trading over. So I don’t see how I should ever get reliable cooperation with the raspberry ball. But I haven’t actually trained with them since the last video, due to a break because of Yari’s poor health. Anyway, I would rather use different balls that are at least a little less valuable.
IF only I could get him to return the balls swiftly and voluntarily, I would have the perfect reward.Thank you!
OK, I think I won’t be able to use the raspberry ball except as a jackpot at the end of a routine for Yari to keep. Its properties seem to be even more valuable than even a tennis ball to Yari (first indicator was his initial tendency to keep it in Session 1, although he had never experienced it being thrown). Nothing happened between the last video (session 5) and this video (session 6). BUT I didn’t use sausage in Session 6, as unfortunately I think it is not great for his IBD.
Here he is with a different ball right after – in the beginning I think he is less cooperative than he would normally be with this type (perhaps because it was unsatisfying with the raspberry ball for him), but he got much more cooperative with time.
He is not quite as good yet at bringing it back when I play outside though (but here I see potential).
5th session with raspberry ball, integrated in training
I started throwing (rather than placing) the ball at 2.47 – immediately you see how he finds it harder to give it up after it was thrown. But then everything from the next throw at 4.38 (in between only food rewards) worked very well. It works best to use the ball intermittently, as when the expectation gets too high, he starts barking. I am pleased, as for the first time I also did not only use sausage as a reward, but also less valuable food types.
Thank you for your feedback! Good point about the timer.
About the “swap”, I wasn’t using the treat I normally used with swap in the last video, I used cheese, which is more of a daily reward, but in combination it seemd to work great.
I think I would need to be very careful that Yari does not feel cheated if I use e.g. throwing treats to get the ball while he is not paying attention, but with the “swap” and the type of treat I was using he seemed to be able to accept it perfectly. Of course, afterwards, throwing treats etc. is always good.Here is our first time with a raspberry ball. I used the best food reward (chicken sausage).
And the second one https://youtu.be/IariNDQMi3cLast Sunday, we participated in a dog dance competition (fun class, i.e. just a training round with rewards). We tried a new choreo (which I only started in December) for the first time, and while I see lots of room for improvement in my own movements, I was was very happy how it went (I also saw that I was simply too fast the one time he started sniffing). https://youtu.be/St0x_stEw_k
Add-on: the “donne moi” signal was trained with random low value objects, the “swap” signal with the most high value object: tennis balls. Seems to be against learning theory but obviously it worked best for the “swap”.
I bought 5 raspberry balls for the course and have been saving them. What do you think? Use them for crazy balls or do swapping with them first? My tendency would clearly be the latter. (With tennis balls, although he will happily swap he may not necessarily want to bring htem as well, i.e. he will swap if I approach HIM). With these new balls, I would want bringing clearly as always part of the game. So I feel working with food from the start would be better.
Thank you!
Tried tugging again
I have mentioned earlier that the “swap” signal always works. But I didn’t use it much so as not to ruin it. Interestingly, the “donne moi” signal was trained by shaping and saying the word when he was about to give me something in the hand (and of course this was rewarded). Conversely, the “swap” signal was trained by swapping, as the name implies. The latter seems to have much higher value. Perhaps because always a bigger treat was used when swapping? Or purely because it acquired more value based on swapping?
Anyway, with “swap” he is also absolutely ok with me taking away even the tennis ball and ending the game. (Which is why I was careful not to use it in other contexts).So he is more than happy to swap the tug toy
and also do so in training
Here wishing for the boucy balls to be delivered to hand (after some tugging). At 1.33 he was a little conflicted about it. But I am alreadyvery happy he kept running back to me. The balls are so bouncy they kept wanting to be in the game.
Crazy balls 2nd video of the day – already progress from the first so no need to watch the first one 🙂
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This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by
Stefanie.
What I would LOVE for him would be to happily retrieve me his highly valued balls after I have thrown them.
They are his most valued reward, but as I wrote in the introduction, so valuable that he tends to want to keep them, although this has much improved. The tennis balls, he wants to keep the most. He will actually always give out upon my “swap” signal, but not necessarily bring them to me. The Puppingtons he is relatively willing to relinquish.
Here is crazy balls with 2 balls that unfortunately I only have 2 from. Yari got the first ball by a pharmaceutical company at a veterinary conference and had so much fun that I asked if I could have a second one. Unfortunately I don’t think I can buy them anywhere). Yari LOVES them. They are extremely bouncy, yet they are less important for Yari to keep for himself than the tennis balls.
A game of crazy balls here.
And when he had enough (after 2.5 minutes) and went to his bed, trading. I like that he became more willing to relinquish the ball as the play progressed (in the first video. The second context would be no issue also with the tennis balls).
Update on Yari: the histological report revealed a liver fibrosis (but again no cause) and that his small intestine was highly inflamed in parts. For this reason, he has been on prednisolone for almost 2 weeks now, but I don’t see overly much effect yet. (The plan is to get the inflammation down with prednisolone for a few weeks, then stop. Maybe do this 2-3 times a year, but no medication in between. He has been on hypoallergenic food already for a long time but I have been unable to identify what food might trigger problems).
Thoughts about tugging: these 2 short videos were when he was 8-9 months old, so 1-2 months after he came to me. He loved tugging and I could easily switch between training with treats and the toys. I didn’t have the issue that he lost interest in tugging.
He is not such a good tugger anymore. I wonder if there is a medical reason (discomfort when tugging). Normally, there should be no reason dogs get less enthusiastic over tugging as they mature?? Actually, there was a time a year ago or so when suddenly he was not tugging at all, this has returned somewhat.
He becomes so excited when first seeing the tug toys and then loses enthusiasm almost immediately. Maybe it is somewhat painful with an aching belly? (Of course I am not speaking from after the operation but before). I consider stopping to work on tugging as I feel we are not making progress. It also becocmes clear that he prefers the personal play as in my video post from December 2.
All the best for the New Year!
Many thanks for your kind words and good wishes! 🙂 The possibility of an extension sounds amazing 🙂
Thank you!
Thank you 🙂
We will be on a 10 day break as Yari had open surgery on Tuesday for a biopsy of the liver and the intestines. It has gone really well, he shows no obvious pain, and he was even able to do social play (without toys) in the veterinary examination room with me while we were waiting there.My two dogs participated at a fun dogdance tournament with me today (Nayeli may seem slow in the videos, but when it is her turn she has a really nice attitude). With Yari, I just performed to a Christmas song without actually having planned a choreography, my main goal was motivation in the ring. Yari loved being in the ring and was basically focused throughout. After the choreo (while the judge was thinking about what feedback to give), I then threw his ball and at the end did some treat throws and running off in the other direction. He had a ball of a time (pun intended xD) and was loving it. I am so glad I could address the emotions thanks to this course – the jumping up to bug me for the treat is fantastic for Yari, so I could convince him it was a really fun game today.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by
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